Mihaela and Florin
House-Parents. Their home is in a small village outside of Bucharest.
Mihaela: My name is Mihaela, I'm 36 and I live in S-----, where I take care of 12 HIV positive children. We have been together for 11 years. This is my husband -
Florin: My name is Florin, I'm 37, and as Mihaela has said, we have been here for 11 years. We have two kids, a boy and a girl. This is our home.
M: Yes - we have 14 children with us - two [our own] who are not HIV positive.
How did you come to be working here?
M: In 1991 my husband and I worked in Colentina Hospital with some of those children who are here now, and my boss from UK - Anne McNicholas – asked us if we wanted to come here for a short time, to take care of four children. Initially I didn't agree - but my husband insisted to go and look.
So we came for three months - then six - then eleven years...
How did your friends and families react?
M: At the beginning we hid this thing [working with HIV+ children], even my parents didn't know.
Fl: They knew we were working with children, but not that they were suffering from...
M: They found out in 1992 from a broadcast of National Television about HIV. Since that moment everybody knew what we were doing. We saw who our real friends were. Not too many...
But they are still close to us and helping - not only me and Florin. But all our children. It means very much for the children to see our friends at the same table with them.
…If we went to see a doctor, we didn't say to him where we were working. We had hidden this thing for many years. After eight years we decided to say the truth to everybody – and those who want to keep a distance from them, or us, it’s his own problem, and his decision.
What were the children like when you first met them?
M: When we first came to S----- we didn't know the four children we found here.
Fl: They had been brought to this house one year before we came.
M: A lady from UK took care of them. The children couldn't speak properly – it was neither English nor Romanian. They said two words in English and one in Romanian...
Fl: For example, when they saw me, they said “how do you faci?” [how do you - do]
M: The children loved very much Mrs. Margery. They were very fond of her. It wasn't quite clear to them on which side to be - or whom to be fond of. They didn't know how to address us. We told them we were Mihaela and Florin. Some years later they called us Mother and Father. We didn't impose this.
Two of the four children were having serious problems then. M---- used to hold himself by the edge of the bed, and hit his head against the bed all the time. Only after one year were we able to make him sleep normally. I told him to tell me if he had nightmares or any problems... I guess it was from the disease, or lack of affection.
There was also M-----, who used to go to the gate, hold herself by it, and scream all the time when I left. Now she isn't like that anymore. She knows we are coming back, she is waiting for us and prepares something good for us…
They needed safety. This happened some months after we arrived here.
I said to my boss that I wanted to leave after two, three, six months - but later I realised this would mean a second abandonment for them - a punishment for them - and God would punish me, too.
What were your early days here like?
M: Very difficult. In the evening I used to stay outside in the yard, and cry - not in the sight of the children. There were four of them, then, but it seemed to me like one hundred. All of them wanted something at the same time.
Fl: We were young, too. You know how it is. When you are young you can't only look after the children. You must have another life - entertainment. For some months it was difficult, until we got used to them, and they to us.
M: We realised this wasn't a game, and that we had a big responsibility. And when we realised this...
Fl: It was completely different from what we did in Colentina Hospital as teachers. There, we used to work for six hours and then went home. Whereas here, since we came, we sleep here, we eat here - it is our home. It wasn't a job any more.
M: If you don't involve yourself affectionately, you don't achieve anything. I don't think it matters to be tough. If you give love, you receive love. If you are cold, they feel it, and its useless smiling at them - they don't accept you.
…They don't want to leave this place. I say to them quite often that in Bucharest you can go more often to shows, transportation is free, you have better conditions - there you don't have to dig and weed the garden. It doesn't matter to
them - everything is here for them.
When did you really start to feel like ‘mummy and daddy’ to the children?
Fl: In the first year.
M: In the first year, and I'll tell you the moment: I was out for a walk with the children. It was about six months after we came here. I still used to regard this as a job, and that I had to do my duty. Regarding my duties I am very correct.
So I was walking with the children, and one of the
villagers [insultingly] called M----- “handicapped”. It was something... I was very angry. Because I knew his situation and...
Fl: Because M----- didn't look like a handicapped child -
M: For that man M----- was handicapped [simply] because he knew he was ill. I jumped forward and I said to that man "You are handicapped - because you don't think."
In that moment I realised I had reflexively defended M-----, and you do this only when you know [someone] is yours. And I recognised in that moment, those children were mine, and I had to protect them.
How was the children’s health in those early days?
Fl: There were, at the beginning, some health problems - when they were ill, and we didn't know what to do. At one or two o'clock in the morning we had to run with them to the hospital.
M: Because the present antiretroviral treatment didn't exist they got ill quite frequently. And being far from the town, here, there was a doctor available only in the daytime, and not during the night.
I remember the first year, in the winter, the snow was as high as the house - and I, a beginner – I didn't know what was going on. I brought M---- home from the hospital, for two weeks. [-----] had just passed away, and I decided to take two boys in his place, for a short holiday from the ward.
Fl: In the first year when we came here, a little boy died, a few days before Christmas - on December 21st. It affected us very much. And we decided to take two little boys from the hospital for two weeks. We took them on the 24th of December - and we were supposed to take them back to the hospital on the 4th of January. But that did not happen - and M---- and V---- are still here now! They are 14 and 15 years old…
M: And M---- had very serious pneumonia at that time. The snow was high, and we couldn't get in touch with the doctors. I had given him oral antibiotics, but his fever was already up, and he wasn't answering me any more. Right here in this hall we had a sofa - I was down near him, and he was in the little bed. And he wasn't talking to me, he wasn't saying anything.
I didn't know what to do to him. I was afraid that if I administered an antibiotic injection it would make him worse. But I said – ‘May it be God's will!’ If God helped me, fine - if not it would be my sin, and that was it. I gave the injection.
And as I waited, he started to come round - and I was talking to him, saying ‘M-----, I love you very much, and I want you to be happy, and for us to be together all our life from now on…!’ And he said to me – ‘I love you, too’ – and starting from that moment he began to feel better – and to breathe normally, and his temperature dropped, too - but I don't know if I would have the courage to repeat that experience.
What do the children know, and think, about their natural parents?
M: One of the boys, M-----, met his father last week.
We were very proud - especially Florin. …When M----- asked his father - "what's your name?" he said, "What do you mean? I am your father". M----- shut up, he didn't say anything. Later, he gave him his phone number. M----- has a mobile phone, and when he was storing the phone number, he asked again for his name - to insert it in the phone directory. He said "Write father". M----- said "No", and he wrote the name of P-----.
Fl: He put the family name. And he didn't talk too much with his father, he spoke more with his brother. His connection was more with his brother than his father. His brother was one year older, and wanted to meet him.
M: It might be good that all of them should meet their parents, and realise why it happened this way. They really must have had problems, and that's why they abandoned them. Perhaps something happened. It would be right for them to meet and discuss and not to live with his hatred, of being forsaken by their parents. It's a shame to live with this hatred. It consumes you psychologically.
I've always told this to them - it is right to forgive your parents. It's good that they gave you birth, they left you alive and they didn't kill [abort] you. You should thank them at least for this. You can't know the problems they had.
But not all of them want to get closer to their parents.
What is life like in the house?
M: We are a big family, and it is very, very difficult - but on the other hand, it is good that the chores are shared! It's a normal family. We can't say we are special. We love, quarrel and reconcile like any other family.
Fl: You don't have to learn at school to be a parent. We teach them what we learnt when we were children. What's left comes by itself, in time - they from us and we from them, from each one. We are a united family, very big, and we think - I think - we are happy, that we are the happiest family.
We, as parents, we've had great satisfactions from them.
M: …We rely very much on them, they help us a lot in the housework, they know themselves what they must do in the yard, they can prepare a meal for themselves, they make my coffee, they can go and buy bread, buy what they might need from the shop, pay the electricity bill. We share our chores.
…There might be days when they say - "My turn again?" - "Oh, yes, I am the loser who always dusts the house" - or
"I am the one who always does the hoovering". Some of them are more diligent than others. But we complete each other.
How have you been accepted in the neighbourhood?
M: …What’s really shadowed us… …was that we weren't accepted in the village school here. And this was not because of the teachers, but the parents - who can't understand that HIV isn't so contagious. Because if it were so, the entire country would be ill.
Fl: Yes, but we were well received by the villagers. Starting with the mayor, the teachers and the doctor - who are influential people in the community – all the people in the village followed their lead. We've never had problems.
M: Like calling them “AIDS” or throwing stones at them, or not being accepted in the shop. My neighbours take them into their homes, they help them with their work, their children come here to our yard to play.
…But there are - it takes all sorts to make a world - parents who don't accept these children going to the school…
…They weren't accepted in the primary school because we live in the countryside - we are in a village, we are known here. If we had been in a town we would have been accepted, because there people don't know each other.
Fl: Here it's a kind of combination between village and
town. There are many who came from town and settled in the blocks of flats [nearby]. And there are these ideas that townspeople are more sophisticated – but they caused the problems with the school. The village people, on the other
hand, accepted us as we are.
M: They said - if you haven’t caught HIV, and yet live there with your children, this means nothing will happen to me, either. They used to come here and talk to the children. So the village man is more understanding - an ordinary man
understands much better, you don't have to work so hard to explain things to him.
So anyway, they weren't accepted here in the village. We had a school behind the house, where the teachers came and gave them lessons - but they had to go further, from primary school to high school. We made this step, too. They passed the exam and they were accepted into the school. Everything was fine, for the first two weeks. At the beginning I didn't say the truth - fearing they might be expelled - but somebody from the village recognised them, and complained at the school.
Fl: The children from the village who were at the same high school told their parents about them. The parents complained "How is it possible to accept ill – positive children?"
M: …But the woman principal of that high school was very kind.
Fl: She held a parent’s meeting, and she said: "If there is any parent who doesn't accept these children learning here, he can send his child to another high school - it's fine. But these children will remain in this high school". All the children remained in the school and no one was transferred.
M: Our children were happy, because they were accepted by those who are not ill, and those healthy children helped them - and that was good for them.
The downside, in my opinion, is that they have begun to speak more coarsely, they are more ill tempered, more confrontational - because they’ve learned this behaviour at the school.
But, they are happy now. They see the future differently - they don't consider themselves different from other children
any more. They’ve realised that if they fight they might succeed.
Fl: It was a major change [when they went to school]. We were a little conservative. This is how we were taught.
…We were more reserved in certain areas - which can be learnt only in a school, where children from all social environments come. Each one has his own problems. And they talk about all of them in the high school. Our kids have learned a lot from school - things we couldn't explain to them.
M: Now we speak more freely about sex, about love, about condoms - we speak differently.
Fl: They've opened us, too!
M: They tried to repeat the curses they had heard. But, I said: "No! Enough! I know you heard many things - but not here, not in this yard. Not even between yourselves. I don’t agree with this." And they have stopped.
Fl: …The high school is 30km away from here. They go alone, come back alone, change buses... things which they haven't been allowed to do until now.
M: Yes, they were well protected. Letting them go alone, at the beginning we were afraid.
Fl: The first two months we took them to school, brought them back, it was difficult. For us and for them. But …we let them free - they leave, they return...
On prejudice
M: First, you are not accepted into a school, or a kindergarten, and not even to work somewhere, I suppose. We are not educated enough to behave normally towards them. It's a pity.
…Being rejected by your neighbour and friends, you can't do anything. And here HIV+ people are rejected.
…At the beginning, my [biological] daughter was not accepted in the kindergarten. She sat on a chair in the corner. Nobody admitted to us that she was not accepted
because she lived together with [our foster] children...
…When I went there and I saw her sitting on a chair in a corner, I asked her: ‘Why are you sitting here?’ She replied – ‘This is where the teacher told me to sit!’
Fl: All the rest of the children were sitting on some benches - while she was sitting at the back, on a chair.
M: I didn't say anything. She was in her last year at the kindergarten. But, at school we met the same problem. ‘We know where the child lives, and what if she transmits something…?’
…Did you have problems with the other children?
M: Not with the others. When I went out with them - or to the shop, the shopkeeper knew me...
Fl: At that time the children were little.
M: Yes, they were little, so they didn't present any danger – I mean, they still don’t, but didn't ‘seem’ to present any danger. All the time I have tried to obtain people's trust, to show them that there’s no danger…
Can you talk about the children’s diagnosis – how you explained it to them?
M: Some began to ask me why they hadn't gone to school?
Fl: …The school is 5 minutes away from our house, and all the rest of the children were passing in front of our yard on their way to school. They asked: "Why don't we go to school? Why do we stay at home?"
M: I answered them that "I'm supported by a foundation, and I can afford to hire a teacher who comes here to teach - but the other parents don't have the possibility to hire a personal teacher."
Fl: You are lucky!
M: Yes... First, they believed us, but in time they realised that something was going on. A few years ago I told them the truth, that they were infected with HIV...
And how did they react?
M: First, they told us they had already talked a little about this, with Dr ----- and Mrs. Tina - that for some time they had been afraid...
Fl: They didn't know what was happening, which was the real problem.
M: All the time when a television showed a report [about AIDS], I would turn it off. As soon as something appeared, I turned off the TV-set. But they knew to read. When they went to the hospital and saw posters with Treatment For SIDA [AIDS], they were saying - "I too take this treatment - why?"
Fl: We couldn't hide it any more.
M: Tina had the courage to take them into her office, and tell them, together with a psychologist, and other trustworthy persons. They understood. It was difficult for them, but they understood. They realised that if they take the treatment and fight, nothing will happen. We are close by them.
Fl: Everything was ok until they learned to read. After that, they opened their horizons. Automatically we couldn't continue to hide [their status].
Now do you have small children who can't read?
M: Yes, we do - A----.
And you'll use the same method with him? You won't tell him until later?
Fl: I think it won't be us those who'll explain to him...
M: Yes. The others will explain to him.
Fl: He'll take the knowledge in passing, from the others. We have F-----, who is 11 and already knows. When they were 11, the others didn't know that they were infected. F----- has known for 2-3 years. She knows, and she behaves normally, and integrates beautifully.
How did the children react to the disclosure?
Fl: They were silenced. They listened to Tina - the chief of the organisation - those who were clever, understood. Others didn't follow what was happening. But all were silenced.
M: They realised it was something serious, something which...
Fl: It's something that affects their lives, and it's going to go on doing that. But, I think they passed over this deadlock quickly. Well, being young - ...as an adult it's more difficult to pass over such difficulties. If I said to a man who was 30 or 40 that he was infected, I think he'd pass over this moment with great difficulty. While a child of 10, 11, 12 years accepts it more easily…
M: …And they felt our backing. They then understood why we were protecting them, and running after them when they got a scratch or fell down - they understood.
Fl: We had taught them, when they had a scratch or a cut to come to us immediately, to put a plaster, to bandage it. They also did that between themselves. They understand that this is vital for them. They'd understood that before knowing that they're positive.
[Health Aid Romania has done a lot of advocacy and publicity work attempting to raise the profile of HIV in Romania, and to change the way in which people with HIV are seen. Some of the children have taken part in several press interviews and television programs in the past.]
What are the children’s feelings about appearing in the media?
M: Up until now, they've wanted to appear on television, and it did not matter to them if it said they were positive. It didn't matter. They were little stars. They were pleased.
Fl: They used to receive phone calls afterwards from our friends – ‘how good you looked!’
M: They were very excited. But not now. When we are invited somewhere, they ask: ‘Are we going to say that we are positive?’ And if we answer yes - they do not want to any more. I ask them why. ‘Because a lot of people know us…’ they say – ‘and if our mates see us…’ Only this. They don't want it any more.
Fl: They made a TV broadcast at the beginning of the year, and only two of them accepted to have their faces filmed. There was another program – a talk show - which was broadcast at midnight on Antena 1. Being such a late hour, they thought not so many people would watch it. All of them appeared, they wanted to. And they watched the TV to see themselves.
M: But after the show, the producer - I don't know if he made a mistake or what - but he said "these children will die". And the children said ‘Why did he say this?’
Fl: I think he made a mistake.
M: I told them ‘We all die, I can cross the street and die...’ I said – ‘perhaps he wanted to excite public opinion. But you know very well that this is not the truth. We will die, too, this thing will happen. You can see you are very well - you feel very well...’
Fl: And there is another thing - even a doctor can't say [for sure]. We have a very clear example here, with B-----, who - when we came here, the doctors didn't give him more than a month and a half to live. And B----- is now sixteen. You realise that even a doctor can't say clearly what is going to happen.
Tell us about the challenges presented by the children’s adolescence
M: What is difficult for them is now… …they fall in love, and none except for B-----, who had the courage - he has a healthy girlfriend, and he had the courage to tell her from the beginning, from the first day - "I am HIV positive." The others didn't have the courage. They might have girls whom they like, and the girls boys, but still they don't have the courage to speak freely.
Fl: B----- had the courage to say - I am positive, if you like me and want to be friends, then -
And he won
M: Yes, he won. He speaks on the phone with her, and he comes to me and says - ‘Look Mum, she gave me a small necklace…’ Or, ‘Mum, what shall I write to her – I love you, M----? Or I'll love you all my life?’
The girls come and tell me, ‘this happened to me…’
Fl: We talk together very much - which didn't happen when they were little. At that time we just looked after them. Now, besides just caring for them… …we must talk to them very much.
This is the critical period
M: Yes, and if you don't listen to them, they alienate themselves.
…Until some years ago I didn't know, I didn't realise, that these nice children would become teenagers – with personality, with problems, with boyfriends and girlfriends, with phones and makeup, with dresses, without dresses, they want tight dresses… I didn't know. Working with teenagers is terrible!
There was G----, who passed through it first. I used to complain to my boss that I can’t, I can’t do it any more. I was
by myself, and I couldn't any more. Next there was I-----, and it was the same: crises, bad temper, she didn’t want that one, she wanted the other one… Now M----- is the same. I don't know how much longer I can resist. It seems it is not so difficult with the boys.
Fl: Yes, it’s more difficult with the girls.
M: It is very difficult with the girls. If somebody had said to me – ‘you are going to have problems’… I would not have believed them.
Fl: I've been at a show with the girls, and I felt more like their bodyguard than their father! I had to protect them - with their short dresses, make up, nicely arranged... real ‘Misses’. I was their bodyguard. They went ahead, I was behind them with the boys…
M: He is very proud, when the girls call him - "Daddy, Daddy…"
Fl: Yes!
M: But it is very difficult. You need a lot of patience with teenagers.
Fl: And understanding...
M: Yes, understanding. And you need to be lenient.
Fl: They are quite changing a lot in this period of time.
M: And it is not only this adolescence… the pills which they take daily speak, sometimes. Many times I know they are making mistakes - and I should intervene - but I stop and I think of that big fist of pills they take… and I think, ‘the pill does the talking, and not him’.
Fl: So it is indeed.
M: And they realise this. And some days later they come and apologise. Now I hope they will pass this well...
They come to me and ask – ‘Mum, what do you want the most?’ Once I told them. ‘Do you know what I want the most? To see you settled down in your own homes. And for you to invite me to your place’.
This is my desire. To see that they leave okay - and that's it. I don't want - I can't take other children, to rear. I want to see these kids be alright. That’s my greatest desire. Three children died in the first three years, but now…
…now I couldn't take it any more.
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