Manuela
Social Worker for Health Aid Romania
The interview was conducted in English, and the transcript (though edited) is presented verbatim.
Well, I’m Manuela, I’m working as a social worker within Health Aid Romania. What I can say is that I’m very pleased to work with the children that we have here.
As a social worker I’m a link between the children, and the social parents, and of course what is needed for them - to be done - regarding papers, identity cards, birth certificates, passports, or maintaining the relationship with the hospital… all that is coming up, during the process of taking care of these children.
On coming to work for the NGO Health Aid Romania
Well, first of all I was very pleased to work within an (non-governmental) organisation. I worked first at an association regarding the human rights, but the project finished there.
Then I worked at the state. But I have never been very pleased, and very charmed, working with the state - because I felt angry and un-useful there, because they couldn’t let you do what is needed for those beneficiaries [clients]. It was strictly only just what they needed to do, and [not] offering… …a very good environment for the beneficiaries.
So the first time that I saw the notice in the newspaper I said well, I have to come here and I always wanted to work with children so it was a kind of great opportunity for me.
And being here, it’s like - not only discovering myself, but I feel... useful. And I really am glad to work with these children, and they need so many things to be done for them. They need a friend in a social worker – and this is what we, I and Adina, try to do for them.
Unfortunately, the time it’s too short, and we are not able to do what we want to do day by day… …we would like to do more for them, because they really need this change. They were discriminated by the system - by all the people around them, because this is the situation here in Romania. They are not accepted as easily here in our schools, normal schools. And it’s very hard for them to make friends…
…So I will describe the organisation as a kind of developing environment for everybody who works here. And it’s how my colleague said to you – it’s like a big family, and that’s how we want it. And of course we need a lot of resources to keep it like that.
On discrimination against those with HIV
…We had to register the children in schools. They took the exam, they took good marks, and it was their right to go to high school. But we had a lot of problems starting in high schools. …If [the headmaster] was flexible, he could find a solution in order to integrate the children. But some others – head masters and managers of the school – didn’t want to be flexible. So we couldn’t integrate the children.
All we wanted for those children was to help them learn in schools, in normal schools like other children. It is their right.
It’s not normal to discriminate against them, just because they have a disease.
And we went to a family physician. We needed a kind of certificate for school - in which they were to write that they are able to learn. And of course that was a real fact. But they [also wrote] there that they are HIV positive. Even [though] they don’t have the right – it’s something confidential. So, because of some family physician, these children could risk not to be integrated in the school. And again and again they are thrown away from school – it’s their right of education. It’s the right of any child in this world.
Why is there such a mentality about HIV in Romania?
It’s very hard, because people think – that could not happen to me. And as long as people are not aware that this could happen to everyone, they don’t care about [the] problems that some other person could face.
So they don’t care. It’s important [that people with HIV] just stay away somewhere… “not to be near me, and that’s ok.”
…So, that happened in schools, too. We tried not to tell [the children’s status] in some other schools, because we knew that they could face a lot of problems.
What effect does this secrecy have on the children?
It’s very hard for them to keep a secret, and that’s why maybe they have - because it’s not very simple for a child, not to tell what he or she really feels. And we all need to talk about our problems. And of course, because they all keep these problems inside, and they are always afraid to say ‘look. That’s how I am’ …and because they cannot be accepted the way they are, they just keep that problem inside. And it could explode. And that’s why they have some crises sometimes. Because it’s very hard for them to keep this secret. I think it’s very, very hard.
What other issues are important for the children?
First of all, most of them were abandoned in the hospitals, so - as anyone - they really want to know why? Why they abandoned me? And most of them believe - because I am HIV positive, and that’s why. And that makes them feel a little bit guilty, because it’s not too easy to know that we’re abandoned…
Or they have the crisis because - some of them are coming from state institutions and they were treated very, very, very badly. And as long as you are treated badly, you accept others to treat you the same the rest of your life. Maybe some of them try to copy that kind of [behaviour]. And they try to be bad with other children, just to show, look – I am not weak.
And they are afraid to talk about their problems because when they wanted to talk about their problems they were just not listened, or - ‘just leave me alone, it’s your fault, you are guilty because you did that, you did that…’ The persons didn’t explain them things how they really were.
Some of them have problems because when they met their parents, the parents treated them badly. One of the girls met her mother and she wanted to give the mother flowers. The natural mother didn’t accept the flowers. So every time she wants to [do] something good, or say something nice, she’s afraid that that person in front of her will treat her like her mother.
…The parents they have now – the social parents – are so wonderful, they try to face all the problems of the children, and they try to [stand] next to them. But they really need sometimes a comfort. And they always call us and say, ‘ok, I have this problem, how could I manage it?’
And sometimes the children came to us, because they didn’t want to talk to the social parents. We all need friends or other persons to share with them our problems.
And how could I say? I feel very frustrated when I know that the child needs me or my colleague to come to talk to them, but we cannot help because we had to do some other papers, or we have to solve some other things [this is a reference to the great quantities of paperwork that the Health Aid staff are compelled to wade through - to meet the bureaucratic demands of donors and the state]. Because it’s what you are here to do – you are here to help the children first. But you know, you have to do those other things because you are doing those for the children too.
But if you let the problems unsolved, and you don’t talk to the child when he really needs to talk to you, you let the problems grow, and grow, and grow. And that could affect the child. So that is very important to have more time to spend with the children.
Because they really want to talk to us. As long as they are confident to talk to you about their problems, that means a lot. And you cannot disappoint a child, not talk to him. We try to find time, but it is impossible sometimes. And that is very hard…
…So, that’s why it’s important to talk with them. Because most of them are fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old, and because they didn’t get enough information about their body, about how it is to be an adult, how it is to be an adolescent teenager, and how you should act in a relationship… that can [create] some other problems besides the ones they have.
So I remember one of the children – they came to Adina and to me – he came to us and – ‘ok, I have a girlfriend – what should I do? What should I tell her? Should I start my sexual life or not? Or... what should I do?’ So, it was important for him – to talk to him. And it was very good for us because he came to us to tell the problem.
But I think what would have happened if we couldn’t talk to him – it would have been worse. Probably… because of the lack of information he could have done something wrong... We met the girl, he was very happy and it was ok.
And - as he had that problem, most of them are having the same problem. They really need a lot of talking, a lot of sharing things with them... I don’t know what to say. There are so many things that you cannot – you don’t know what will be tomorrow, and you have to prepare them for what’s the worst or what’s the best for them. Because you don’t know.
What do you anticipate in the future?
…[I think that, as they become] adults they could face more and more problems. I try to be optimistic and think that things will be changed and we will have enough resources to help them over eighteen years old.
Because it’s very hard for them – when I think that they will be thrown, like in the sea. And they will face all the problems, and they will have no person to talk to. And no friends around. That could go to a very big crisis. And you never know what you could do when you are in such a crisis.
So that’s why the best thing is… …to talk – to try to visit the houses day by day and to notice all the problems and try to solve them now, when you can solve them. Otherwise, if you let them unsolved I could not see a very bright future for them.
On the need to socialise the children
…We – I and my colleague – would like to take the children, maybe now, in our spare time, to go to a movie, or to a party – to help them to socialise, because that is very important to them.
They had everything they need in the house, but it’s like growing in a kind of cage - because when you get out of the cage you find a different world. But I’m sure that even in ten years they will come back, all the time to the foundation and to the persons that are working here, because probably this is the place where they found understanding. [But] it’s important for them to socialise with the outside world.
On problems in the future
…We are a little bit frustrated because we don’t have all the resources necessary to help them to manage with the outside world. Regarding the fact that they will face a lot problems. Even for a normal child it would be hard nowadays here. But when you think of an HIV positive [child] - it will be hard when they try to find a job, it will be hard when they try to be on their own - maybe they will find a job and they will always have to hide the fact that they are HIV positive…
…And I don’t think it’s normal – to be always like this – afraid. And when you have to make a girlfriend, and you have to tell that girlfriend what you have. If that person is like everybody, you’ll be just thrown away.
I just think how hard it is for them in order to make a family. That’s why it’s very important to work with them. Because they’ll have to accept this - maybe to never have children… probably never be able to have a girlfriend… never to be able to have somebody to hold me… so they must grow very strong in order to succeed in this life.
…When I look at the children, they are not really prepared to take their life in their hands. You have to be stronger if you have such a kind of disease, with such a mentality in this world.
…I’m sure that they do want to become independent. Because most of them are asking – who are the persons who are going to move in the social apartments? [Health Aid has a project facilitating apartments where the older kids can experience independent living]. Because they really want to stay by their own.
It’s something we always – we all – want this. Because they love the social parents – the social parents make everything possible for the children - but you could not stay a child all the time. You have to take your life in your hands and go on.
On social prejudice against people with HIV
It was like the same with the sex, you know? It was like a taboo subject. That’s why most of the parents don’t know how to talk with the children regarding sex, because they weren’t told about – their parents didn’t tell them. It was something – ‘you don’t have to do that – it’s not allowed’. It was the same with the HIV positive.
…Most of the children were kept in secret during the communist age. It was something like, it’s something bad – you [mustn’t get] near that person. So everybody who was HIV positive had to keep this secret because otherwise he could risk to be blamed by the society, by the system…
…And because the fear still was deep in our minds and our souls [people] could not accept that they have to stay near a person which was HIV positive. It’s something which took roots in mentality – in people’s minds.
And it’s very hard, because… …everywhere that you go the persons have this fear. So they could not change – they could not change the system. Fortunately the children and the young people are starting to see the things differently than their parents, so that could be something optimistic.
Another thing - as I’ve told you before, if [even] a family physician is acting like that – is afraid…
I knew a woman… and that woman told that she wanted to go to the family physician, in order to take care of the wounds of a child who was HIV positive. And the physician sent her to the specialist because – you know, “I have no time.” Actually, she was afraid, to take care of the wounds of the child. So if a family physician [can] do that, you could not expect [more] from a normal person, from a person from the country.
How did your own friends and family react when you came to this job?
What I can say is – yes, when my mother found out I will come to work with HIV positive children, she say - ‘wow’. [Manuela laughs]. She was a little bit afraid, and I said mum, there is no problem - you should understand that. And she understood – but I explained her.
Actually, I said no matter what is your opinion I will go! Because I really want to work with those children and I – it’s my job. I am a social worker, I work with persons in need, and that is my job. Otherwise I wouldn’t have done that [course]. It’s the same, like working with every person. And when I told her more things she said yes, you were right – now she has a different opinion.
…I must say that I have some – not the best friends around me. I have some friends who say ‘wow. You are going to work there. You should take care.’ And I said ‘Wow! You are – silly! How could you think like that?’ So, that made me more to want to work with these children. Because indirectly I felt discriminated myself. So I imagine how hard it is for the children.
And there is something else. You said about politicians – there was made a programme about positive discrimination regarding the gypsies. They could do this thing for the children – for HIV persons. A kind of positive discrimination. You know, a help for the school who wants to take an HIV positive child – or something for the medical institution who wants to take care of the HIV positive – or more points for the family physicians who are having in their care HIV positive children. Or for the institutions who wants to hire such a person.
…And I think of something else. It’s not their fault, first of all. They were infected because of the system. So they [the state] should be responsible for that. So it’s not something – they didn’t want to be HIV positive. So they should take more [responsibility] in order to help them integrate in society.
…I think of the social parents – most of them changed a lot of persons around them, because they took the children, they are staying day by day with the children, they are very committed. They don’t treat this as a job any more. And that is something special in this organisation. Because the social parents are more than their natural parents. Because they stay with them, they face together with the children the problems from this world – the mentality.
…They are like a proof [to the society outside], you know? ‘I am staying here and there is nothing wrong with me. You should do the same’. And when I came here, that was something that impressed me very much. Because there is a mother and a father – two social parents, they have their own children, and they took some children – and that is a great thing. They stay there. They don’t have days off actually. They took this not as a job – they treat the children like making a part of the family.
About the children
What else should I say about the children? That I really adore them. I just hope for them to succeed in this life and – why not? They could become resources – human resources, for other persons who are like them. And it’s very important, because this could help in the future other persons in need. Because every HIV child who succeeds in life, it’s a good example for others. And that could help other children.
They could help others in the future, and I think that is very important. …If we help them become adults …who knows where they could get? And they could know from their experience, and change things.
…And what I hope more – to find maybe a cure. Maybe. That is the most important for them. I’m looking forward and I just hope that people should give more money for this. Because it’s not just the problem of peoples who are HIV positive. It’s a problem of the all. Of the world. It’s something like people don’t – they don’t want to see that any problem that exists, it’s our problem. It’s not separated. Because it affects us all.
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