Christina
Project Coordinator at Health Aid Romania
When this interview was conducted in mid-2004, Health Aid was in the early stages of a project to buy apartments in Bucharest, where some of the older children could come and experience independent living. At time of writing, the organisation has an apartment where some of the kids – now 18 – are spending weekdays or weekends living away from home. But more apartments will be needed, and they are hugely expensive in the context of the Health Aid budget. – January 2007.
On Joining A Small NGO
Well, I was trying to change my working environment, and I came here following an ad in a newspaper. And it sounded interesting to me because I always cared about what non- governmental organisations did… Even though, at the time I came here, I only knew about very huge organisations. It sounded interesting.
When I came here and I was told [the job], I thought - it shouldn’t be very hard. During these two years that passed, I found that working in an NGO can be sometimes extremely hard. Because you need to struggle to find funding, and to cope with all the problems that appear, and to fulfil all the requests that the funding agencies have for you. So probably my expectations at the beginning didn’t really fit with all the work that has to be done here.
On Health Aid Romania
…Other organisations that work directly with HIV infected children? There are some others. Probably at the beginning -as far as I know - we were the only organisation dealing with the children directly. But now this field has developed and there are some other organisations that do what we do.
There should be more, because the government is trying to close the state-run centres. So there should be some options for the children who come out of those centres. To either go out to families, or go to organisations such as ours.
What’s the budget of the organisation?
Tiny, considering the staff. The final message [of your film] should be - five people in the office work for forty-three children in seven houses with [as little as] a hundred thousand dollars per year.
This year, we have a budget of a little over one hundred and seventy thousand dollars. US dollars. We have forty-three children, who live in seven houses with a social mother and a social father. And all of this is administered by seven people here in the office, including the executive director. So we are a very, very small group of people who care for a quite large number of children of different ages, with different problems…
On Problems Of Integration and Schooling
At the moment, [one] of the biggest problems that we’re facing [is obtaining] …legal papers for the children. It’s very hard to obtain legal papers in the absence of parents. Parents who didn’t come to visit them for five, six, ten years.
The law is very difficult to apply. The law requires the parents to take part in obtaining the legal documents.
With school integration there is another problem - because we always have to keep to ourselves, and not let the school authorities know that the children are HIV infected.
Because there is still a lot of discrimination… in the schools. So we try our best to take these children to schools, state run schools, without letting – at least at the beginning - without letting anyone know that they are HIV infected. Otherwise they wouldn’t have this chance.
[Legally] there is a ‘confidentiality status’ – you don’t have to let anybody know that you are HIV positive. So according to the law, every child – including the HIV+ children - can go to school. But the law is not exactly applied – there are probably very few schools here in Bucharest who accept HIV infected children. The others not.
In state school at the moment [we have] sixteen children. The other children who are the right age to go to school either stay at home, unfortunately - as is the case with one of the children in S---- House - or go to a school that we provided. We provided the space, the school supplies, everything. The teachers come from a state run school and teach the children inside those premises that we provided.
As far as I saw, in children that attended state run schools of arts and trades last year, I think the transition was maybe a favourable one… They adapted very quickly, and they felt that something changed in their lives and they had… I think that they were very happy to have this new responsibility. Of going alone to a school, of taking care of themselves during the school hours, and trying not to… let anybody know about their problem.
Having new friends! They were very happy about making new friends, because in the – when they went to [our] school… …it was quite hard for them to meet new kids of their age, because it was like a closed environment.
But now they have plenty of friends from different parts of Bucharest. From different environments. Children who come from their own families. So, I think they adapted quite well - in spite of the fact that, at least during the first part of the school year, it was quite hard for them to cope with the new teachers, and the new subjects. At the end of the school year, their results were pretty good. I think it was a very good experience for them. It should happen to all our children.
On caring for adolescents, and plans for the transition to adulthood
For now, the questions that we’re facing are related to the children reaching puberty, and having er - you know, the behaviour according to puberty…
And passing from childhood to adulthood. Which is quite hard – the fact that… …growing up, they need more intimacy, more space of their own. So this is why we thought about developing this project for independent living. Because we felt that they need a bit of push, to become adults on their own. To take care of themselves without the help of somebody in the house, and at the same time providing them with space – personal space, intimacy… because, at a certain age, everybody needs that.
So this is why we developed this project… …where we want to purchase two apartments for four – six at the most – children, to go and live there after they reach eighteen.
We have already chosen twelve children. The twelve children who are most capable, to adapt to living independently - to knowing the neighbourhood, even to going shopping with a certain sum of money and not spending it on rubbish.
We selected them knowing – you know, their history over the years. [Who] was more psychological [sic] and developed – even physically developed. So we can be sure that at the end of these two years [of preparation] – at least six of them will be able to live there on their own.
The difficult thing about finding the apartments at the moment is the price – since our budget for this project was done last year… …the prices turned from US dollars to Euros, because the US dollar exchange rate dropped, while the Euro increased – and with the sum that we budgeted a year ago, it’s very hard to cover the price of an apartment. A two-room apartment.
Probably, we could find two apartments at these prices - but they are extremely far from the hospital and extremely far from the location of the present houses. So we shall try and combine these two – the price and the location. We hope that in the very very near future the prices will – if not decrease, at least stabilise, you know – not increase.
In a very optimistic way, in my opinion, the project with the apartments should be further developed. And if we buy now two apartments, maybe we can buy more. Because most of [the children] should go and stay there - because over a certain age, they can’t be eight in a house.
However, for those children who can’t be – who can’t adapt to this independent living, probably the solution will be staying in this same house where they live now. Hopefully to find jobs according to their education - which is indeed a huge problem here in Romania. But this, in a very optimistic way, should be the future. Some of the children in the apartments, some of the children in our houses.
Even though it’s very hard to find money to support adults – people over 18 years old. It’s very hard because… …sponsors are more interested [in young children]. We hope however to continue the projects after that age - and to help them to find a job, to be able to help them continue their education and be able to graduate high school or the school of arts and trades…
…We shall see. The next four years will be very… we shall see.
On social & legal obstacles to the ‘apartment project’
We have to find - in the newspapers or on the internet - adverts about selling apartments. And try to combine price, quality, etc etc. Location. And visit as many as we can – probably seven or eight… it depends if we can find them at these prices, and it depends on the location. We’ll have to visit them, see the state that they are – you know, can a person live there, or is it a complete disaster? And then, it is a procedure like any person buying an apartment. I asked the representatives from the Ministry of Health what would be the procedure and they said – like any other, just a regular person buying an apartment…
[But] it is necessary to inform the neighbours - when you have to go to the Child Protection Department, and obtain the authorisation for the apartment to be a social-family type house. A social-house. In order to get that authorisation, you have to have the agreement of your neighbours.
In my opinion it is quite… strange. You must have the agreement from half – more than half. Not necessarily all of them. But at least more than half of the neighbours have to say, ok, yes – you can bring here HIV infected children. Which will be extremely hard because… …this will lead to a problem, because you have to buy the apartment first and then ask for the agreement of the neighbours. So if they say no – this will be a problem. A big problem.
I don’t really understand why we should have this agreement, probably Adina can tell you more, but… I find it rather… useless? Because they don’t live in the same apartment with the neighbours! They will have their own apartment. It’s just the building that they share.
And if they have neighbours who are not informed – and they think that by using the same elevator, or using the stairs or touching the doors at the entrance of the building can harm them and can infect them as well… It would be very hard to convince them.
You need that agreement when you go to the Child Protection Authority to ask for a house… it’s stupid. Can I say that on camera? It’s stupid! [laughs]
On handling State bureaucracy
…Bureaucratic meaning what? Meaning tonnes of papers? Meaning people not knowing the law? Meaning people interpreting the law as they wish? Yes. Always…
…When you have a law, and you have to apply the law, everybody has the law and reads it - but they all have different interpretations and sometimes if you go to a department, they feel a certain way about the law. And if you go to another department there’s another interpretation – so it’s very hard to …solve the problems. It takes time and a lot of paper work, and a lot of convincing the people – it’s very hard to convince people who work for the state that their interpretation is not the right one. It’s extremely hard…
…The interpretation of the law, I think, is the biggest problem at the moment in Romania - and when you have to deal with different state run departments, state authorities.
[It’s] probably because… …people were so willing to reject centralised decisions and centralised explanations at the beginning of the 90s. They were so tired of everything being centralised.
So probably, if a law is given, and a methodology is provided, there are certain small things that still need to be clarified… and there doesn’t come an explanation, you know? For instance, from the person who drew the law, the department, to explain these things once and for all, you know? For everybody to have the same interpretation…
…So then, everybody can interpret them as… For instance, one person might not consider - if you have a sentence, on a paper, and you don’t put the stamp on that sentence, and you put it lower, or higher - it’s not good! The sentence now does not mean anything. There are people who think like that… [laughs].
…I was about to be involved with the police once. Because I told a woman that she was so stupid… she says [does ‘stupid’ voice] ‘I’m going to call the police!’ Because I didn’t have a stamp on a word! You know? It was lower. “No. Doesn’t mean anything. Sorry. You have to have a second stamp on that word.”
[Cristina smiles and shakes her head].
What else do you want to know?
On the public perception of AIDS & HIV
A noticeable change? Yes, there is a noticeable change in the attitude, considering that at the beginning of the 90s, having AIDS meant - I don’t know, probably infecting the whole air around you and killing other people as well. There is still discrimination. There is still a lack of information in spite of all the campaigns that are made. There is a lack of information in the population. So people still think that touching a person who has AIDS will sooner or later kill you.
So even though they say it’s ok to have an HIV positive friend or relative, there still is a feeling of rejection. And the worst thing in my opinion is that people who should inform properly – such as the media – sometimes make huge mistakes in the presenting of people infected with HIV.
Can I give a simple example? Yes. It was on a TV station in the news, about a sixteen year-old girl who ran away from a state run centre. And she slept with several men. Without protection, so she infected them – she was HIV positive, so she infected them.
The news was in such a way presented that she was the one who was guilty of infecting those men – in spite of the fact that she was a minor – so they could go to prison for sleeping with a minor. They also accused her of not wearing protection, which is quite hilarious.
…The facts were quite distorted, and probably the one who wrote the material was a man. Considering she was the one who’s “guilty”. Not to mention huge lack of sympathy for her HIV status. She was a criminal.
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